CENSORED BUG Report – Confirmed by MS – WCF RIA Services v1.0

CENSORED BUG Report – Confirmed by MS – WCF RIA Services v1.0 – Silverlight 4 – Entity Framework 4- relationships 1 to 0..1

This is my own personal Public Complaint against Microsoft’s dirty behavior when I publicly reported a Bug at the Official Microsoft Silverlight Forums affecting Visual Studio 2010, Silverlight 3/4, WCF RIA Services v1.0 (final version) and Entity Framework 4 (EF v2).

Bug description: can’t use RIA Services with an EF model having “1” to “0..1” associations (inheritance involved).

  • Compiler error trying to compile the Silverlight client project (the one with the RIA Services Link):
    • Unable to retrieve association information for association ‘Model.PersonAddress’. Only models that include foreign key information are supported. See Entity Framework documentation for details on creating models that include foreign key information.
    • But the problem is that Entity Framework doesn’t allow including foreign key information in “1 to 0..1” relationships.
    • Anyway, if there’s not inheritance involved, RIA Services can use these relationships although there is no foreign key information.

No freedom of expression, innapropiate comments, experts confusing every reader, etc…, and me being unable to post any more bug reports nor comments just because of my own personal opinions about the “confusing answers” (and its intention) I constantly get, answers whose only goal of downplaying the importance of the reported issue or even try to show there’s no bug at all.

First, the thread was closed, not allowing anyone to reply, but anyway other replies came through, downplaying bug impact, which I couldn’t reply to, later the thread was completely deleted and I was literally switched off (banned).

Luckily you can still take a look at the Google’s cached page of the original post (although there is a lot missing/deleted posts).

Now I leave you one question in the air:

What quality can anyone expect if users are being punished and humilliated when they report a Bug?

This bug report is related to the following thread at the Official Microsoft Silverlight Forum:

Initial Title: Can’t use RIA Services with an EF model having “0..1″ to “0..1″ associations (1 to 1, 1to 0..1, 0..1 to 1, 0..1 to 0..1)

http://forums.silverlight.net/forums/t/191689.aspx (it’s not worth to click it, as it has been deleted)

After a (long) introduction, I’ve appended here a copy of the bones of the original thread, retrieved from Google’s cache.

EDIT: I also recommend you visiting http://techrights.org, which I didn’t know yet, as I’ve found later really worse misbehavior examples.

As some Webs are automatically getting the feed from this content, this is the URL where I posted it at first:

https://jdcebrian.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/confirmed-bug-wcf-ria-services-entity-framework-relationships-silverlight/

___________________________________________________________________________________________

MY MICROSOFT STORY: FULL OF DECEPTION

Thanks to Google’s web cache and may be the WaybackMachine I think I can prove almost everything I’m saying here, so if you don’t trust me, or you think I manipulate the truth, please, see yourself, because this is one of the most humiliating experiences I’ve ever come through, and it is completely Real.

Microsoft at one side, just me at the other side (now unemployed developer).

It all started when I was hit by a Bug using the final version of Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate.

A bug, as we call it in software, just as a human error that “eventually?” passed the quality tests for the software application to be “ready for the consumer”.

Several months of work were violently interrupted by this Bug.

I thoroughly read the documentation, read the online help, searched, Google’d, Yahoo’ed, once and again, but found no information about “why” could my application be failing.

So I isolated the problem: I just created the smallest program I could, just to test if it was really a bug or not, as according to the documentation, it should work.

A very insignificant and trivial program that everyone would expect to work as it is supposed to do. But… no way.

Yes, I’ve found a Bug.

Now I can’t develop the application I was expecting to, more than a year and a half ago, when Microsoft was exposing its new tools for developers.

So I decided to report the bug at the Official Microsoft Silverlight Site, where I thought the Bug Report could be finally delivered to the appropriate Microsoft developer, who could, sooner or later, fix it, and by the way, I’d warn other users expecting developing a similar application, that the tool has a Bug that could abruptly break their future plans, as it happened to me, and if I was lucky, I could even be gifted by an expert with some knowledge that could let me fix it by myself (or circumvent it) before the public bug-fix, patch or whatever was released, so I could keep working, because now I’m stuck, with no choice at all.

The bug report exposed the minimal example program I made for this purpose, step by step.

And “just one” question: “Please, can anyone confirm this is a bug?”.

I didn’t even ask for help nor anything. The first step was confirming the bug and if it is confirmed, warn other users, before it is too late in their development. Later I would actually ask for a temporary workaround.

As I know that some people answer only to earn some points, without any helping willingness, it doesn’t matter if the answer is helpful or not, because they give them points just for responding, I added an innocent warning: “Please, no jokes nor easy talking, as my job could be at risk and I’m not using beta software.”

But it seems that Mr. Colin Blair, the first guy who answered my question, didn’t read the only question, he didn’t neither read the warning, but he took enough time to write a lot of things that didn’t help me at all (nor any other, and he knew it), more things to confuse anyone reading the question (and he knew it) to finally say that he can’t even imagine why would anyone do something like that (although I’m sure he knew when and where he would use it, as it is a very basic thing everyone modelling data should know). So to downplay a little bit more the impact of the bug, Mr. Colin Blair, as the most relevant expert in the Microsoft WCF RIA Services forum, still had time to negate what I previously exposed: that sooner or later, “in a real world development”, you will need the feature that’s currently failing.

I can’t believe it. I must be really having really bad luck. What an expert, I thought. It’s the third time, in a row, that I get such an answer from a Microsoft employee or even worse, it’s MVP.

I was so sad reading the answer of the Microsoft’s “Most Valuable Professional (MVP)” (what did I do wrong to deserve that answer? My question was clear enough… It took my time…). So I gave him the appropriate reply, as he is “the expert” in this Bug’s subject, and I rebated point by point each line of his “answer?” as he deserved (not very elegant I think).

I was not very polite, I know, although I didn’t attack him anyway, but I knew he’s an expert and he knew the importance of every word he said, as he was just downplaying the bug impact and by the way earning some points, for nothing but polluting the thread, because he didn’t help anyone, he polluted the conversation thread, he greedily earned some points, and he didn’t even take “just one minute” to try to reproduce the bug I was just “asking to be confirmed”.

Then came his second reply: “You must be a Troll”.

Where in the world have you seen a troll starting a thread and reporting an existing bug?

“What a welcome back, eh?”, he said.

Why should I welcome you? Specially when you’re polluting the thread, downplaying the importance of the bug, and it just happens that I really don’t like many of your answers in the forums? Why should I thank you if you are not helping anyone at least in my thread?

“You must know that nobody will help you because you’re flaming everyone”, he finally said.

Can you believe that? An official Microsoft forum? The Most Valued Professional?

So are “we” just not going to get the bug confirmed nor fixed just because I replied him telling that “he’s not helping me at all”? Am I idiot? Does he think we’re all stupid?

Listen, it’s not about me!

It’s about everyone using this Microsoft tool!

Visual Studio 2010!

The latest version!

It’s about confidence!

It’s about quality of the tools you depend on!

It’s about the quality of the applications you’re developing!

You’re using it! I’m using it! A lot of people is using it!

What’s going on here?

This is a basic feature!

Don’t you want it to be fixed?

Now I say to myself: please, calm yourself, leave the computer, go to sleep, tomorrow will be a brand new day… Zzz

As the night follows the day a new day begins. I check my mail and:

WHAT? My posts were deleted?

I can’t believe it… “Your posts are too aggressive” said the e-Mail.

Well, may be I was a little bit harsh…, but nothing more…

Just facts and the plain truth… No bad words…

Then I think to myself: “a user downplaying a bug” doesn’t mean that everybody at Microsoft are aiming at me with rocket-launchers, but… the forum administrator deleting my posts when I was the first user reporting that bug, and given that his reply didn’t answer my question, added confusion and even proposed a not working solution, what’s going on?

Is Microsoft really that kind of Evil monster everybody tells me?

I always reply everyone “Microsoft is not your enemy”.

Who works for nothing?

I want to earn money while I develop applications.

Why not?

Well, it seems that earning the money by working isn’t the problem.

The problem is more likely to be found in the way it is earned…

Yes, I’ll have to think about it a little bit more, but… later… NOW I DEPEND ON MICROSOFT!!! Sad but true…

Now I need to keep my job, and keep this application up.

Go to the point… Don’t mess around… Just try to be more polite this time…

But… What?

At the same time my two replies were deleted, Mr. Colin Blair’s hard reply was deleted too…

And now a new reply appears, as if nothing happened, but it looks like now, at least, he has tried to reproduce the bug!!!… Nice… Hmm… But he doesn’t clearly confirm it… He just keeps saying that his original advice (first reply) is good enough… And now he’s working at home! After work!

BUT THERE’S STILL A PROBLEM, HIS ADVICE DOESN’T WORK!!!

I better don’t talk about his advice, because by the way, if it worked, it would make me lose a lot of vital information for the application, but anyway it didn’t work. So once again, the expert and Microsoft’s Most Valuable Professional, was confusing the reader. Why?

And after that, he even tried to manipulate the conversation thread talking about something that the tool doesn’t do, just for the case I expected it to be done.

Again: Am I Idiot? I exposed a clear, trivial, simple example to show the bug… Why are you talking about things the MS tool can’t do as if you expected me to want it to be done? I’m just talking about the bug. I formulated just one and only question: please, can anyone confirm this is a bug? You’re the expert… Why didn’t you confirm it clearly? Why are you confusing everyone again and again?

And they’ve deleted my posts!!!

But I didn’t even say a bad word!!!

So my first impulse is to make public they’ve deleted two of my posts.

Because now is not just Colin Blair, it’s the own “Official Microsoft Silverlight Site”. So I’m angry and quickly write a new post:

So is it a BUG or Not? Please, be clear…

Will you Confirm it is a Bug?

Will you Fix it?

Deleting POSTS for reporting an “unreported” Bug is the worst thing I can expect from Microsoft?

Now I realize that I didn’t talk about his workaround so I’ve at least to do the same think I wanted him to do. Try myself.

But as expected. It doesn’t work. But it is worse than I expected before. Because when I tried follow his directions a new Bug appeared.

It doesn’t matter… Calm down… Just explain it…

I have to show him he was wrong, and so I tried… Politely…

New post, rebating point by point his replies. You’re wrong. It doesn’t work. I’ll lose vital information, but it doesn’t work anyway.

I want to be polite, so I post once again trying to do the second thing he said. But anyway it doesn’t work, neither. The tool doesn’t allow it. But I tried, you can’t say I didn’t.

Now, given they’ve deleted my posts (those they didn’t like, but true), and the thread has been polluted anyway with off-topic information and non-working workarounds given by the Most Valuable Professional, at least I want to say some things.

Because I’ve thrown several months of work to the trash, not taking into account the time wasted to learn to use the tools, I post some complaints about the framework, related to the Bug I’m trying to get just confirmed (it just needs only one thing to be done, test it !!!).

Then I post another complaint about the forum, as my posts are being deleted and the order of the conversation has been altered by the forum administrator.

Another post, As Colin Blair asked himself why would he need to use that feature (sure he knows why), and my posts were deleted, I try to politely answer him again. I show him he just needs to read my first post, and see the example I posted in that “first post”.

Well, at this point it seems that the forum administrator doesn’t like to see my posts in my own thread and deletes one, so I post another complaint, one more, another complaint…

Was it so difficult to say you’ll try to test it, Microsoft?

BUT NOW MY THREAD HAS BEEN CLOSED

I really think that was the goal all the time, since they realized the bug was there… Get the thread closed… So they were just waiting for an “excuse” to close the thread (forum terms violation, etc…), which I didn’t…

But now, nobody from Microsoft will confirm if the BUG is present or not, as the thread is closed.

And by the way, no other user can publicly tell if they’re having the same issue or if they were planning to use that feature later.

So now I create another thread exposing clearly that my thread was closed, my posts were deleted, and the Bug is still present.

Then, several users (real users?) come around complaining about me, and telling I’m flaming other users. I DIDN’T. That I won’t get help from anyone, etc… I’m not asking for help!!! It’s Microsoft who needs help to fix their broken tools!!! And I did, I reported it !!!

WHAT ABOUT THE BUG? WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER CUSTOMERS???

I gave my point of view to each and everyone complaining about me.

Finally, a Microsoft’s employee posts:

Thank you for reporting the bug. The team is aware of it and will let you know if there are workarounds available.

WOW! I’m happy now.

Well, job done… Message delivered…

But then I see this thread gets deleted and merged with the previous one, which was closed, not allowing anyone to post, but mysteriously a new “downplaying bug impact” post appears in the thread, that happens just to be the last one, that happens to be too the first one the users will try to read, as it is supposed to show if the thread is useful or not.

Now I realize that if anybody tries to contact me by clicking my Avatar:

The user you have selected to view or contact has been deactivated by the administrator.”

It really looks like the tried to really deactivate my account but they couldn’t because of some bug in their own forum server… Unbelievable…

WHY? I’m angry again… I can’t post in my own thread… They’re minimizing bug impact… Nobody can contact me… They’re banning me!!… And I can’t say anything…

But… Wow… I discover a stupid simple bug that allows me to answer anyway (only in my own thread)… So I reply to this guy… I rebate each and every point he’s confusingly pointing at, and by the way, I add some comments to my first question, at the header, just to explain what’s going on and warn people about what value gives Microsoft to the words “freedom of expression”.

I don’t like the fact that “the user has been deactivated”, so I wonder what’s going on again? So… let’s try to start a new thread… See what happens… “Just to test if I can start a new thread”… Hmm… It seems OK… Let’s go out… Sign Out… What??? When I sign out the thread reads: “Post deleted”, so I Sign In again… Now the thread seems OK. Sign out again. “Post deleted”!!!

Calm down… Try again… Posting in a thread… “Post deleted” when I sign out!!! What’s going on again???

Damn Microsoft… Don’t bother… At least you could reply to that guy and that reply can still be read when you Sign Out… OK… Calm down… It isn’t worth it…

Hmm… One day… Another day… Third day…

Damn it… Again, they delete my last post… Why??? It was a “technical only” post !!! No bad words nor hostility… Just technical…

They don’t give any explanation since a long time ago… They just delete my posts whenever they want without notice…

This is denigrating… calumniating…

Well… Calm down… I can still Edit my first post and tell what’s going on… And so I do…

Now my comments can be read the same way the Bug report…

For how long? Let’s see…

Very short… Minutes… Damn Microsoft…

ARGHHH!!! They’ve finally COMPLETELY DELETED the Bug report Thread…

No Thread => No Bug

That’s what Microsoft might be thinking right now, so don’t  expect it to be fixed….

Thread URL: http://forums.silverlight.net/forums/t/191689.aspx

Do I have to WATCH MY BACK now? Is it not enough to lose my job?

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, if I had a lawyer, he would probably recommend me to say what I do now:

The following reading recommendation has nothing to do with Microsoft, so any similarity you could find is just caused by your imagination.

Book: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45, by Milton Mayer

Quoting Martin Niemöller:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

THIS IS WHAT I COULD RECOVER FROM THE ORIGINAL THREAD

Please, take into account that up to 30 of my posts were deleted and different threads were merged altering the meaning of the conversation.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

J.D.Cebrian
J.D.Ceb…

Member

Member3 points

38 Posts

BUG: CONFIRMED: 1 to 0..1 relationships in Silverlight WCF RIA Services if the entities use inheritance

07-15-2010 1:39 PM |

EDIT: The BUG has been finally Confirmed by Microsoft (see Kyle’s reply) – this applies to Visual Studio 2010 final release

I initially said 0..1 to 0..1 summarizing 1 to 1, 1 to 0..1, 0..1 to 1 and 0..1 to 0..1 relationships.

I’m sorry Colin I said you were not qualified to answer this (question => please confirm the Bug) due to frustration.

(Didn’t say bad words, just feel 1st answer was downplaying the BUG, although I warned: see last line of this post)

THEN: 16 of my posts have been deleted by the Forum Administrator

– including first reply before Colin 2nd one (now missing), so Colin’s now 2nd appeared after censoring my reply

– now it seems that I get angry with him when he is trying to help a little bit more (even at home after work)

(I knew his workaround won’t work before trying, but after he insisted in 3rd post, after deleting 2 of my posts,

I tried again in my computer and his proposed solution showed unsuccessful as I explain later)

NOW: Nobody can contact me: The user you have selected to view or contact has been deactivated by the administrator.

– And I can’t even Report New Bugs (start new threads).

SO: I help MS improve and remove the Bugs other users could find later in ther development (may be too late)

BUT: I can’t express my own opinions nor Post any more Bug Reports – Good Job MS Guys: No Voice => No Problems

I THINK THIS IS HUMILIATING FOR ME PERSONALLY (MS plan working right now, no more bug reports)

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Can’t use RIA Services with a model having “1” to “0..1” associations (inheritance involved).

No problems compiling the Web server project.

But I get this error when trying to compile the Silverlight client project (the one with the RIA Services Link).

Unable to retrieve association information for association ‘Model.PersonAddress’. Only models that include foreign key information are supported. See Entity Framework documentation for details on creating models that include foreign key information.

EDIT: It’s NOT POSSIBLE in EF to Add Foreign Key Information to these relationships: 1 to 1, 1 to 0..1, 0..1 to 1, 0..1 to 0..1

To insure it is a bug, I made a new project (using the Silverlight Bussiness Application template).

Then I added a very very simple data model (only 3 entities) from scratch, using the designer:

Person

Id (Guid) <— Key field

PersonData (String)

DefaultAddress (autogenerated navigation property “1” to “0..1”)

Customer : Person (inherits key field + data fields from person)

CustomerData (String)

Address

Id (Guid) <— Key field

AddressData (String)

After that, I applied the “Generate Database from model” to create a new database and complete the mappings.

Finally added a DomainService to the Web project to get code autogenerated on the Silverlight project:

        public IQueryable<Address> GetAddress()
        {
            return this.ObjectContext.Address;
        }

        public IQueryable<Person> GetPerson()
        {
            return this.ObjectContext.Person;
        }

Trying to “Build” this solution shows the error I’ve posted previously, after successfully compiling the Web project, but failing to compile the Silverlight project.

This is a pretty simple model that sooner or later anybody will need to use in real world applications.

So now I wonder if RIA Services is being used in real world applications, as I”m the first one posting about this bug after so much waiting for RIA Services “final” release.

Somehow out off-topic:

When I knew EF 4 would allow foreign key associations, I supposed it would be for all kinds of associations, but now I’ve sadly realized that this only applies to “0..*” associations. You can’t add foreign key associations to “0..1” relations.

When you generate the Database from the Model, you can see the foreign key fields are properly generated on the underlying database tables, but you can’t add them anyway to the Entity (mapping errors arise if you try to).

Anyway, RIA Services shows no error if there’s no inheritance involved, so when the error message says Only models that include foreign key information are supported“, I think this should accordingly be applied to the only “foreign key information” allowed by entity framework, that for now are only “0..*” associations.

In this simple model I’ve used inheritance in only one side of the association to make it simpler, but in my real world model I should use inheritance in both sides.

I’ve throughfully read both Entity Framework 4 (v2) and WCF RIA Services v1.0 documentation and found no tiny letters nor warnings about using inheritance and “0..1” associations.

So please, can anyone confirm this is a bug?

Please, no jokes nor easy talking, as my job could be at risk and I’m not using beta software.

ColinBlair
ColinBlair

Star

Star14079 points

2,484 Posts

Silverlight MVP

Re: BUG: Can’t use RIA Services with an EF model having “0..1” to “0..1” associations if one entity has inheritance

07-15-2010 7:53 PM |

The few times I have tried using the “generate database from model” option I have not been happy with the results. I suggest trying to create the tables yourself and then generating the domain service from the model.

That being said, I am having trouble trying to imagine what a valid 0..1 to 0..1 association would look like in the database and why I would want to use one. Do you mean that each table has a foreign key to each other? The only reason I mention this is that you say this is a pretty simple model that sooner or later anybody will need to use a real world applications and I can’t imagine why I would want a 0..1 to 0..1 association.

-Colin Blair

http://www.RiaServicesBlog.net : The Elephant Guide to RIA Services
SLColinBlair on Twitter

ColinBlair
ColinBlair

Star

Star14079 points

2,484 Posts

Silverlight MVP

Re: The BUG is STILL there? Will you FIX it or NOT? Will you CONFIRM it or NOT?

07-16-2010 1:51 AM |

I took a look at your problem after I got home to my box that actually has VS2010 on it. Following your steps, I saw the error. I then deleted the entities and regenerated the model from the database (this added the generated Address_Id field into the Person table). After resetting the inheritance and deleting the extra Id column from the Customer table everything then compiled correctly which leads me to belive that my original advice was sound.

BTW, I see the database that was generated doesn’t have the 0..1 to 0..1 relationship enforced so I understand what you were doing now. Sorry for the confusion, my lack of EF4 at work is why I have been absent lately.

-Colin Blair

http://www.RiaServicesBlog.net : The Elephant Guide to RIA Services
SLColinBlair on Twitter

J.D.Cebrian
J.D.Ceb…

Member

Member3 points

38 Posts

Re: The BUG is STILL there? Will you FIX it or NOT? Will you CONFIRM it or NOT?

07-16-2010 10:35 AM |

ColinBlair:
everything then compiled correctly which leads me to belive that my original advice was sound

NO, NOT. If you compiled everything correctly it is just because you left the relationship as “0..1” to “*” instead of “0..1” to “0..1”.

Because “0..1” to “*” is what you get if you create the model from the database instead of from the model.

But when I change this relationship to be how it is meant to be (“0..1” to “0..1”) then a new and worse error arises:

Error 113: Multiplicity doesn’t have a valid value in the Role ‘Person’ inside the relationship ‘FK_AddressPerson’. Due to … the upper bound limit of multiplicity of the Dependent Role must be *.

I say worse because now I can’t even compile the server project (that I previously could).

Sumarizing, your advice does NOT work.

Anyway: I want to create the database from the model to avoid losing valuable information (and time consuming). It’s my choice, not yours…

But your recommendation is to create the model from the database, so you’re not helping me and, by the way, you’ll make me lose a lot of vital information represented “only” by the model.

Think twice… Should I really have to follow your directions?

J.D.Cebrian
J.D.Ceb…

Member

Member3 points

38 Posts

Re: The BUG is STILL there? Will you FIX it or NOT? Will you CONFIRM it or NOT?

07-16-2010 10:49 AM |

ColinBlair:
I see the database that was generated doesn’t have the 0..1 to 0..1 relationship enforced

I tried to enforce that (auto-generated) relationship as you suggest but….

Entity Framework doesn’t allow it! It doesn’t accept it!

Although I used to work using the EDMX file directly for my real project,

to work with this example (only three entities) I used the Designer, which continuously leads me to a lot of “Dead Ends”, where your only option is to delete all your work and start again.

If all this weird things happen by only using the tool, what can we expect when our applications are finished?

Will it work as expected? Will there be data corruption? Will you delete this post again?

J.D.Cebrian
J.D.Ceb…

Member

Member3 points

38 Posts

Re: The BUG is STILL there? Will you FIX it or NOT? Will you CONFIRM it or NOT?

07-16-2010 11:06 AM |

The worst of all is that Entity Framework is part of Visual Studio since 2008 SP1 and it doesn’t seem to be ready YET for “real world applications” usage.

And I better not talk about MS “Object Spaces” (the Entity Framework parent), which Microsoft was showing us more than 7 years ago

I see a lot Podcasts, Webcasts, Videos and Marketing, but “real” quality tools for the developer, mature and bug-free seems to be Science Fiction.

J.D.Cebrian
J.D.Ceb…

Member

Member3 points

38 Posts

Re: BUG: Can’t use RIA Services with an EF model having “0..1” to “0..1” associations if one entity has inheritance

07-16-2010 11:42 AM |

As I am continuously getting confusing and tricky answers all the times in all public Microsoft forums, and my posts are being deleted and yours are being edited when I’m sleeping, I’d like to be straight and ask some questions:

Do you still want ME as a developer to use your tools or not?

I’m not sure, please I need an answer.

Then, do you want people to develop real world applications or just demos and webcasts?

I think just marketing and webcasts, evangelism and warriors of faith in the forums. Next step new religion (tax free).

Do you want users to report bugs or not?

Talking about “bad quality” issues in your flaming new product, I’m not sure about it. What about sales?

So what is this forum for?

I don’t know yet, because when I post a question and someone posts a tricky answer, then I repost showing you’re wrong and my posts get deleted.

So what when I report a bug?

You tell me you don’t use that feature or that I’m doing something weird, scary, non intented to, etc…

(Then some year it will be fixed, when I’m in bankrupt – but not MS)

J.D.Cebrian
J.D.Ceb…

Member

Member3 points

38 Posts

Re: BUG: Can’t use RIA Services with an EF model having “0..1” to “0..1” associations if one entity has inheritance

07-16-2010 11:53 AM |

Real words from the MVP Colin Blair:

ColinBlair:
I can’t imagine why I would want a 0..1 to 0..1 association

I shouldn’t have to show you this, as I think that if you’re a WCF RIA Services MVP (it has something to do with data modelling things), you should at least learn the Basics.

But here goes the explanation: as my initial example shows, a “0..1” to “0..1” association is used to set a “default value”, in this example it is the “DefaultAddress” of a person, because one person, specially a customer, can have multiple addresses… one for receiving goods and another one for receiving bills for example… (although for simplicity the other relationship has been left out of the model to show the bug more clearly).

Some questions:

– do you get paid for your contributions in the WCF RIA Services Forum?

– if not, how do you benefit of so much time contributing to the forum?

where is the post in which you called me Troll just for showing my dislikeness about throwing several months “of my work” directly to the trash and getting such an answer from an MVP?

mott555
mott555

Member

Member573 points

138 Posts

Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 5:15 PM |

Sorry, wrong forum. This forum is for getting help, posting tips, or other discussions about WCF RIA Services, not for ranting against other forum users.

ManuelFelicio
ManuelF…

Member

Member284 points

74 Posts

Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 5:19 PM |

No one is willing to help you because the first thing you’re doing is start a personal flame war against the first one that tries to help you.

J.D.Cebrian
J.D.Ceb…

Member

Member3 points

38 Posts

Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 5:23 PM |

You’re wrong, it’s just the perfect plan for MS to close a thread reporting a bug from a new product with bad quality issues…

The user wanted me to say he’s not qualified just for allowing the thread to be closed by terms violation…

First one who tries to help? Please, read the post and you’ll notice this is not true…

ManuelFelicio
ManuelF…

Member

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74 Posts

Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 5:27 PM |

Listen,

This forum has LOTS of bug-report posts by lots of people, mvp or not, including me. None of those posts were closed or had deleted posts. So why yours is being closed? I suggest you ask someone else to read what your posts and to read other people posts regarding bugs. I’m sure that person will tell you why yours is closed.

Best of luck,

Manuel Felício.

kylemc
kylemc

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701 Posts

Microsoft

Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 5:33 PM |

Thank you for reporting the bug. The team is aware of it and will let you know if there are workarounds available.

Kyle

Kyle McClellan — My Blog@KyleMcClellan

sladapter
sladapter

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5,035 Posts

Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 5:34 PM |

First, I don’t want to get into any fight here and I’m not from MS. So please be patient with me. I only want to have some discussion on how to do many-to-many relationship with RIA service.

I read your original question, seems you have 3 tables. Person, Customer (Customer is a extension from Person), Address. You want one Person to have multiple addresses, and each address can be mapped to more than one person, right?

In this case (many-to-many), you usually need a third table in DB which is Person_Address table. It contains PersonID and AddressID.

So If I were to do in DB, I need to create Person table (PersonID, PersonData), Customer table(PersonID, CustomerData),

Address Table (AddressID, AddressData) and Person_Address table (PersonID, AddressID).

I have never created EM first, then generate tables from EM. I always do it the reversed way: Generate my tables and relationships in DB then generate the EM from DB. So I have no idea on how the tables are generated in this many-to-many relationship case. When you create the Tables from EM, does it generate this Person_Address table?

Many-to-Many relationship is little tricky with EM, but it will work if you know how to do it. See this thread (and linked article) to learn how people are doing it:

http://forums.silverlight.net/forums/t/164028.aspx

sladapter
Software Engineer
Aprimo, IncPlease remember to mark the replies as answers if they answered your question

mott555
mott555

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Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 5:42 PM |

If you don’t calm down this thread will probably be locked soon. sladapter is trying to help and you’re just flaming other users.

lee_sl
lee_sl

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Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 5:47 PM |

Opinion – I would say unless it is a spam and/or totally not related to the technology being discussed, Threads should not be deleted, whether the poster is asking a question or commenting or expressing frustration.

———————————————-
Available for consulting in Dallas, TX
http://leeontech.wordpress.com/

J.D.Cebrian
J.D.Ceb…

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38 Posts

Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 5:48 PM |

sladapter:
I have never created EM first

Then you can’t help me.

sladapter:
Many-to-Many relationship is little tricky with EM

I’m talking about “0..1” to “0..1” relationships… It’s well explained… Default value…

sladapter:
I read your original question

It seems you missed the whole point.

sladapter:
and each address can be mapped to more than one person, right?

Not at all… It’s well explained… Please read it again…

NOW PLEASE DON’T GET ANGRY WITH ME

I ONLY WANT TO SHOW YOU THAT YOU’VE WASTED MORE TIME WRITING YOUR POST THAN TRYING TO WRITE THE THREE ENTITIES AND TRY FOR YOURSELF (and by the way you would be polluting the thread)… Just facts…

J.D.Cebrian
J.D.Ceb…

Member

Member3 points

38 Posts

Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 6:00 PM |

kylemc:
Thank you for reporting the bug. The team is aware of it and will let you know if there are workarounds available.

Hi Kyle, I’m glad to see you here.

May be I’m not the perfect domesticated customer, but you finally helped me solve the other issue I posted.

Thank you very much Kyle. I really appreciate that in that thread it was a non-implemented feature that you finally helped me to achieve.

At least in this thread about the Bug, as a Microsoft employee, you acknoledge to have received the message.

This shows a little bit of humility by one side, and the hard truth by other side, but I accept it, although I understand by these words that there are no plans for a hot-fix, but anyway I’ll be expecting further news about it.

I must confess I was first hard with you in the other thread, because I felt you were ridiculizing my data model, but I think that finally everything got clear and some days ago I marked the thread as resolved, with a little bit of code that I think can help many other users… Please feel free to recreate the thread if you want so that the answer gets clarified.

By the way, I’m trying to show that I’m not here to crush anyone, just trying to make the tools work, like any other customer.

Matthew R Hall
Matthew…

Member

Member356 points

48 Posts

Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 8:25 PM |

I thought this sounded interesting so I went through the same steps as Colin. I have to agree with Colin that the 0..1 to 0..1 is unusual.

Is the idea to support orphan records rather than excude them? So you can have an address that ties (relates) to no other object?

Anyway you are right, RIA Services doesn’t appear to play nice with this kind of relationship. A work around maybe exposing what you need as stored procs.

I don’t think this is a bug, more funtionality that hasn’t been implemented. I personally would rather see cleaner many to many relationships implemented before this 0..1 to 0..1 get addressed. Microsoft probably prioritises fleshing out functionality based on how people are using the technology in the enterprise…

J.D.Cebrian
J.D.Ceb…

Member

Member3 points

38 Posts

Re: REPORTING A BUG => MY THREAD BEING CLOSED

07-16-2010 8:58 PM |

Matthew R Hall:
I thought this sounded interesting so I went through the same steps as Colin. I have to agree with Colin that the 0..1 to 0..1 is unusual.

Unusual means it may be “completely necessary” although it’s not as usual as a “0..*” relationship.

You say you agree with Colin, but Colin said a completely different thing:

I can’t imagine why I would want a 0..1 to 0..1 association (Colin Blair words)

Matthew R Hall:
Is the idea to support orphan records rather than excude them? So you can have an address that ties (relates) to no other object?

In a “0..1” to “0..1” relationship there should not be any orphan records… What are you talking about?

Matthew R Hall:
Anyway you are right, RIA Services doesn’t appear to play nice with this kind of relationship.

Sad but true… But “doesn’t play nice” is nothing compared to “impossible” which is the reality of RIA Services now.

Matthew R Hall:
I don’t think this is a bug

BUT IT IS, EVEN IF YOU DON’T THINK SO. IT’S CLEARLY EXPLAINED IN MY FIRST POST.

Matthew R Hall:
Microsoft probably prioritises fleshing out functionality based on how people are using the technology in the enterprise…

And this is why I doubt RIA Services is used in the enterprise, because I’m the first one pointing at it.

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  1. July 22, 2010 at 14:16

    You were banned from the Silverlight.NET forums based on your attacks against other users, which is strictly against the site’s Terms of Use. You are not prevented from submitting bugs, as the process for doing that is outside of the Silverlight.NET forums — bugs are submitted through Microsoft’s Connect site. The instructions for filing a bug can be found here, which is a pinned post at the top of the “Report a Silverlight bug” forum with the subject line “Read First: How to Report Silverlight Bugs”: http://forums.silverlight.net/forums/t/188432.aspx.

    • July 22, 2010 at 16:00

      1) I DIDN’T ATTACK ANYONE. Point. Show us all “when”, “where”, “how” and “why” or, “please”, shut up, because you’re telling lies.

      2) THEY DELETED THE WHOLE THREAD, but they could just delete individual posts as they did with almost 30 of my posts.

      3) I preferred to report the Bug in the appropriate “Public Forum” just to warn every other user of the high risk they were developing an application that later in the development would “fail completely”, as it happened to me, after several months of work. And I also decided to post in this public forum because it was public for everyone to read, so I could get more feedback of other users with the same problem.

      4) I was just banned just for telling the truth and letting this bug be publicly visible in the forum, no more, no less. Because if they didn’t like a post, they deleted it, as they did with almost 30 of my posts, which I had to rewrite constantly, changing words, just to try if the Administrator would let it pass the censoring this time, losing a lot of valuable time, but even then, some posts were deleted instantly, while others were deleted 5 days later, changing the meaning of further replies. That’s HUMILIATING, and that was the intention.

      5) The guy who answered was downplaying importance and impact of the bug, as every developer would expect that feature to work right. But, as the guy who answered was a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional expert, I gave him an appropriate reply (deleted by the administrator), which didn’t have any bad word.

      6) So if the expert, called Colin Blair, with a lot of points, stars and the MVP prize tells everyone that he can’t imagine why would ever he need that feature, I must tell everyone that then, he’s “not qualified” to answer my question. Mainly because he didn’t even try to reproduce the bug, and he didn’t answer the question neither.

      7) So if I put him in evidence is just because he let it happen due to his bad reply… IS THIS ATTACKING ANYONE??? Or is it just that Microsoft didn’t want everyone to read such a bad reply from his MVP and because of it Deleted the whole thread? (it had 15.000 views last time I saw it, just in one week)

      8) Finally… Are you telling me that to report “such a simple bug” I have to go through a lot of barriers even when I’ve publicly reported it at the “Official Microsoft Silverlight Site” with a lot of Microsoft employees constantly watching it?

      9) You forget that the Bug was finally confirmed by Microsoft and the whole thread was almost stuck just waiting for a response… So… Where will that workarond, patch, hot-fix or whatever be published now? (If any) Out of the thread of course… Because they have deleted it!!!

      10) And meanwhile… Nobody can se there’s such a basic bug floating around in the their “flaming new” development tools: Visual Studio 2010 final version.

      11) So good “dirty job” (again)…

      12) Last: if I was somehow “very disliked” this time it was because this is the third time (in a row) that I get such an answer from a Microsoft guy. Previous one wasn’t a bug, but was ridiculizing my data model, but the first time was another bug regarding Visual Studio 2005 and ASP.NET, and that one… I better not talk about that one… Because it was left unpatched!!! As Visual Studio 2008 was already in the market… But damn it… We were using Visual Studio 2005 because of enterprise policy restrictions. But it was still supported by Microsoft!!!

      NOTE: I see you say why I was banned (false anyway) but you don’t say why did you DELETE the thread

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